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	<title>Comments on: The playground for the human spirit..</title>
	<link>http://edc.globalmindflow.net/mariano/the-playground-for-the-human-spirit</link>
	<description>The Existential Debate Club is a place for folks to ponder the mysteries of the universe, why we're here, and what it's all about.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mariano</title>
		<link>http://edc.globalmindflow.net/mariano/the-playground-for-the-human-spirit#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://edc.globalmindflow.net/mariano/the-playground-for-the-human-spirit#comment-31</guid>
		<description>First, I'd like to comment on what you asked for at the end, to extend on the imagined belief sentences.

With just your example of the Comcast Tower, it means this:
A group of individuals collectively imaginged what the building should be. What materials should be used, what purpose the building should serve, etc.. a huge list of properties of this thing, 'building', that were not in that location before, but made sense within a 'form of belief', a 'paradigm', of modern construction. Yes, other buildings are around, the materials are not new, but the assembly of them into something greater than the sum of its parts took human imagination. Now, by executing on the belief that this building can be made, a new reality exists on the streets of philadelphia that will impact the lives of future generations. The reality of a more modern philadelphia with a building that will function to serve the needs of many businesses and individuals has been created. It is real now, but was only imagined before.
I think that the belief is only imagined until intention gets executed. There are many ways to imagine many things, but without the execution of human intention, there is no effect on the world. 

Beyond the Comcast Tower, I think of it like this (also tying in with the difference between human intention and animal intention):
We, humans, have our own inner world, which seems nearly unbounded, to imagine and believe. In fact, our reality that we live with on a day to day basis IS this set of inner world beliefs, our paradigm. We operate and intentionally change the world around us based on our paradigm. HOWEVER, at any single moment, for whatever reason, we can shift our paradigm and believe reality to be completely new for us, we in essence, transform. This transformation goes both ways, towards growth and enlightenment, or towards safety and need-based thinking. I think that every day is a process of mini-transformations one way or the other. So what our life comes down to is whether we have harnessed this power to choose, and transform towards growth, or do we operate in auto-pilot letting the collective Social paradigm makes our choices for us.

This is entirely different from the animal world. I see animals EXECUTE behaviors, but I do not see this based on intentions from a seperate internal paradigm. Their motivations are driven by biological need, a shared paradigm between all animals of the same species. More advanced animal forms (apes) seem to be closest in conscious abilities, but still I feel the critical distinction is that their inner world does not see itself as a seperate inner world. They do not have awareness of being. So you are right, intention does have a grey area, but I feel that human existence crosses a very clear line into Intention through self-reflection and imagination. Not simply Intention through Biological Group Behaviors evolved to ensure continued life.

I will have to leave my comments on your other points of feedback for another time.. gotta get ready for class..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I&#8217;d like to comment on what you asked for at the end, to extend on the imagined belief sentences.</p>
<p>With just your example of the Comcast Tower, it means this:<br />
A group of individuals collectively imaginged what the building should be. What materials should be used, what purpose the building should serve, etc.. a huge list of properties of this thing, &#8216;building&#8217;, that were not in that location before, but made sense within a &#8216;form of belief&#8217;, a &#8216;paradigm&#8217;, of modern construction. Yes, other buildings are around, the materials are not new, but the assembly of them into something greater than the sum of its parts took human imagination. Now, by executing on the belief that this building can be made, a new reality exists on the streets of philadelphia that will impact the lives of future generations. The reality of a more modern philadelphia with a building that will function to serve the needs of many businesses and individuals has been created. It is real now, but was only imagined before.<br />
I think that the belief is only imagined until intention gets executed. There are many ways to imagine many things, but without the execution of human intention, there is no effect on the world. </p>
<p>Beyond the Comcast Tower, I think of it like this (also tying in with the difference between human intention and animal intention):<br />
We, humans, have our own inner world, which seems nearly unbounded, to imagine and believe. In fact, our reality that we live with on a day to day basis IS this set of inner world beliefs, our paradigm. We operate and intentionally change the world around us based on our paradigm. HOWEVER, at any single moment, for whatever reason, we can shift our paradigm and believe reality to be completely new for us, we in essence, transform. This transformation goes both ways, towards growth and enlightenment, or towards safety and need-based thinking. I think that every day is a process of mini-transformations one way or the other. So what our life comes down to is whether we have harnessed this power to choose, and transform towards growth, or do we operate in auto-pilot letting the collective Social paradigm makes our choices for us.</p>
<p>This is entirely different from the animal world. I see animals EXECUTE behaviors, but I do not see this based on intentions from a seperate internal paradigm. Their motivations are driven by biological need, a shared paradigm between all animals of the same species. More advanced animal forms (apes) seem to be closest in conscious abilities, but still I feel the critical distinction is that their inner world does not see itself as a seperate inner world. They do not have awareness of being. So you are right, intention does have a grey area, but I feel that human existence crosses a very clear line into Intention through self-reflection and imagination. Not simply Intention through Biological Group Behaviors evolved to ensure continued life.</p>
<p>I will have to leave my comments on your other points of feedback for another time.. gotta get ready for class..</p>
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		<title>By: lee</title>
		<link>http://edc.globalmindflow.net/mariano/the-playground-for-the-human-spirit#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://edc.globalmindflow.net/mariano/the-playground-for-the-human-spirit#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Very interesting summary of what existence is all about.

If I may play semantics for a moment: if I am not mistaken, Native Americans believed that there was a distinct difference between souls and spirits.  All animals had spirits and animals of the same race in fact shared in one spirit; dogs all had the dog spirit, horses the horse spirit, etc.  Human, however, had souls, each human having a unique soul. Regardless of this conception of the world, is there a difference between spirit and soul? What do we really mean by each?

You've also set forth an interesting distinction between animals and humans, namely, intentionality.  We can recreate reality with intention based on imagination.  After all, what other animal has reshaped reality as we have?  With intention, as all things in life, things aren't black and white however.  When a beaver builds a dam, does he not have that intention? When a monkey uses a stick to dig for ants, doesn't he intend to?  Perhaps the truly defining difference is that starting at about 9 months of age, we start to recognize other humans as separate agents with intent.  Not only do we have intention, but we also recognize that others do as well.  Unfortunately it's hard to peer into the mind of an animal.

Nonetheless, I feel that intention, coupled with the ability to not act on them, is a key difference between man and animal. To quote Albert Camus in The Fall: "Anyone who has considerably medidated on man, by profession or vocation, is led to feel nostaligia for the primates. They at least don't have any ulterior motives."

The "perceived moment of interaction between an inner world an outer world" is precisely the "quality" moment that Robert Pirsig investigates in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," and is that which, according to him, ultimately "creates" our understanding of ourselves, that is, us in relation to the perceived outside world.

If you could, I'd like you to extend a bit on the following passage: "human life, however, is able to shape reality into some imagined form of belief, a subconscious paradigm, a collective dream, a dream which manifests behavior and ‘personality.’"  How, for example, does building the Comcast Tower fit into this reshaping of reality, and if a belief reshapes reality, is it still only imagined?

Good stuff man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting summary of what existence is all about.</p>
<p>If I may play semantics for a moment: if I am not mistaken, Native Americans believed that there was a distinct difference between souls and spirits.  All animals had spirits and animals of the same race in fact shared in one spirit; dogs all had the dog spirit, horses the horse spirit, etc.  Human, however, had souls, each human having a unique soul. Regardless of this conception of the world, is there a difference between spirit and soul? What do we really mean by each?</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve also set forth an interesting distinction between animals and humans, namely, intentionality.  We can recreate reality with intention based on imagination.  After all, what other animal has reshaped reality as we have?  With intention, as all things in life, things aren&#8217;t black and white however.  When a beaver builds a dam, does he not have that intention? When a monkey uses a stick to dig for ants, doesn&#8217;t he intend to?  Perhaps the truly defining difference is that starting at about 9 months of age, we start to recognize other humans as separate agents with intent.  Not only do we have intention, but we also recognize that others do as well.  Unfortunately it&#8217;s hard to peer into the mind of an animal.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I feel that intention, coupled with the ability to not act on them, is a key difference between man and animal. To quote Albert Camus in The Fall: &#8220;Anyone who has considerably medidated on man, by profession or vocation, is led to feel nostaligia for the primates. They at least don&#8217;t have any ulterior motives.&#8221;</p>
<p>The &#8220;perceived moment of interaction between an inner world an outer world&#8221; is precisely the &#8220;quality&#8221; moment that Robert Pirsig investigates in &#8220;Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance,&#8221; and is that which, according to him, ultimately &#8220;creates&#8221; our understanding of ourselves, that is, us in relation to the perceived outside world.</p>
<p>If you could, I&#8217;d like you to extend a bit on the following passage: &#8220;human life, however, is able to shape reality into some imagined form of belief, a subconscious paradigm, a collective dream, a dream which manifests behavior and ‘personality.’&#8221;  How, for example, does building the Comcast Tower fit into this reshaping of reality, and if a belief reshapes reality, is it still only imagined?</p>
<p>Good stuff man.</p>
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